SPEAKER_00 0:12

You're listening to the Philanthropisms podcast with Roger Davis. Hello, you're listening to the Philanthropisms Podcast. This is the podcast where we try to put philanthropy in context. I'm your host, Rodri Davis. And I should say, just a peek behind the curtain before we get going on this week's episode, that you nearly weren't listening to the Philanthropisms Podcast. Because as some of you might have seen on LinkedIn, I had a technology issue involving mistakenly moving a file that I thought was a shortcut and then deleting it, which resulted in all of the recordings of every single episode, past and future, of the Philanthropisms Podcast being permanently deleted. Luckily, with the help of some hastily procured uh software, uh, I was able to recover almost all of the files that I needed. Uh, apart, it turns out, from the intro that I'd recorded to this podcast. So this is the second version uh of the intro that I'm doing. But thankfully, I think we're back on an even keel now. Anyway, with that out of the way, this week's episode um I'm in conversation again, um, and this time it's with Rachel Jarrosh and Suzanne Ahlers. Now, Rachel is the chair of USA for UNHCR, uh, and Suzanne is the executive director and CEO of USA for UNHCR, um, and that is a US-based nonprofit that is an affiliate of the United Nations Refugee Council, the UNHCR, um, and it's existed for a few decades now, um, and its role is to raise awareness of the work of UNHCR and also funding in the US to support that work. And there are similar uh affiliate organizations for the UNHCR in a number of countries uh elsewhere around the world. So I sat down with Rachel and Suzanne a couple of weeks ago now to talk to them about the work of USA for UNHCR, uh, and particularly um about a campaign that they're both involved in called Building Better Futures, which is a women-led philanthropy uh campaign that is um fundraising from women donors, but also focused on giving to women refugees, particularly around uh the area of access to education. So um I talked to them about that, about how that campaign had come about, why the focus on education had been chosen, why education in particular and access to it was uh both so important for um the communities that they're focused on serving, and why there are particular barriers to uh female refugees when it comes to accessing education, and also why education is a really powerful lens or a catalyst for um improving all sorts of other aspects of uh life as well. Um, we also talked about um the phenomenon of women as donors and why it is um that uh perhaps they've sort of historically been slightly sidelined or ignored by many organizations as a particular group to uh to look to for philanthropic funding and why this Building Better Futures campaign uh had uh decided to try and overcome that and how. Um we talked about what that meant in practical terms, uh in terms of how you fundraise effectively from women and how that might look a little bit different. Um, we talked particularly about the role that narrative plays in that. Um, we also talked about uh women as um the recipients of philanthropy or the focal point uh and what it uh looks like to take a sort of gender-based lens and apply that to uh to an approach to philanthropy and what some of the benefits that come from that are. We also talked about whether a focus on women within philanthropy also brings with it a focus on giving in a collective way, which a lot of the evidence seemed to suggest it does, and certainly the Building Better Futures campaign is in large part about building that network uh amongst uh female donors, and we talked about what some of the additional value and benefits that had come from that uh had been. Um, we also talked about the wider context uh at the moment for the work that USA for UNHCR and UNHCR itself is doing. Uh obviously, work around refugees and migrants is always challenging in many different ways uh and you know can be kind of highly politicized. The uh climate in many places around the world at the moment makes it uh even more difficult. And we talked a bit about how they had navigated some of those challenges and how they were continuing to do uh the work that they do. Um so without further ado, uh let's go into the recording. I should also just uh flag up that Rachel in particular was uh phoning in, I think, on a cell phone from an airport. Um the sound quality I think is actually fine thanks to um the miracle of uh iPhones these days. Um, but just so that you're uh kind of uh aware of the slight difference in uh in the uh sound quality between people speaking. Um but hopefully you'll really enjoy the conversation. I think there's lots of really interesting stuff in there. I certainly found it um really fascinating. Um and I will be back at the end for the usual bit of housekeeping. Okay, great. Well, I'm here with Suzanne Ahlers and Rachel Jarrosh. Hi to both of you. Hi. Great to have you on the podcast. So, yeah, we're here to talk about the work that both of you are involved with at USA for UNHCR, um, and particularly a really interesting project uh campaign called Building Better Futures, um, which I'd love to hear more about, and there's lots of really interesting things to dig into. Um, maybe the best place to start, Suzanne, is if you could tell everybody a bit about what USA for UNHCR actually is as an organization, what your mission is, and how that kind of links up with the UNHCR, which is probably an organization that lots of people have heard of.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

Yeah, happy to do so, and thank you so much for um for inviting us to join your podcast. Uh, USA for UNHCR is a US-based nonprofit, a 501c3, as we call them here by the US tax code. And we are connected to a network of other national partners, all of whom exist to fundraise and build awareness for and develop partnerships for the UN Refugee Agency, UNHCR. So we are essentially the sort of nonprofit mouthpieces for UNHCR in some really incredible markets. And as you know, the US in particular has a really rich and dynamic philanthropic tradition. So being here with that set of responsibilities for UNHCR is a real privilege and an honor. We have a ton of fun doing it. So I'm based in Washington, D.C. We have a team of about 100 people in the US and are significant fundraising partners for UNHCR from the private sector. So everybody but government.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Great. And I don't know if there's anything you want to add to that, Rachel.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

No, I just like to say thank you for having us because we love every opportunity to talk about building better futures and about the refugee issue broadly. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

No problem at all. And yeah, that brings us neatly on actually to maybe you could say a bit, Rachel, about the Building Better Futures campaign in particular and what that campaign is and how it came about and what the aim of it is.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

Yeah, I'd be delighted to share more about building better futures. I'm so proud of USA for UNHCR and for my fellow donors and philanthropists who are supporting this effort. USA for UNHCR really saw a gap uh in its donor profile because women drive, as we all know, the majority of giving decisions, and yet very few campaigns are built with them in mind. And so Building Better Futures was designed really to center women's voices, both as donors, as leaders, and the beneficiaries in each stage of this campaign process. And the goal of the campaign is to raise $15 million over four years to fund 1,000 scholarships specifically for women, which would then increase the number of refugee women pursuing university education by 20%. It's a significant uh leap, and I'm thrilled to share that this last year we had the highest proportion of women enrolled in education, refugee women, excuse me, enrolled in higher ed in over 30 years, but we still have a long way to go.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Yeah, absolutely. I'd I'd love to pick up on some of that particular focus on women both as donors and particularly kind of as recipients. But but maybe before I do that, I just want to pick up on the focus particularly on education, Suzanne, and maybe say why is that the particular lens through which the Building Better Futures um campaign has has chosen to kind of uh frame things. What is it particularly about access to education that's so important and powerful as a catalyst?

SPEAKER_02 8:56

Yeah, it's a great question. And I um having spent my life in kind of global humanitarian and development work, education has been sort of a theme and a thread really throughout all of the roles and all of the organizations for which I've worked. Um, first of all, it's a multiplier. You know, we know that giving refugees, really anybody, access to education at any level, but particularly tertiary education, which can be quite difficult for refugees to access, is a game changer. It's transformative for them, it's transformative for their families and communities, and certainly then for the economic contribution they can make to the countries in which they eventually go on to work. So as we gathered this group of women sort of early in the process as sort of an advisory council, really wondering, you know, sort of not just sort of what we didn't have any kind of preconceived notions of what the campaign should be, but we started with the question of what's the impact you want to have. And I think that the answers to that impact question are what led us to education. People want to have long-term impact, sustainable impact, transformative impact, and impact, frankly, that's across a bunch of different sectors. So it's not only going to increase the chances of their economic sort of mobility, it's going to keep their families healthier because that's what educated women and mothers do. It's going to keep their communities more stable because that's what accessing higher education can do to a community. So once we sort of heard, all right, these are the visions and the imagination around impact, education seemed like the most sort of like the right sort of pivot point to come in. And as Rachel said, there are some real gaps, not just between refugee scholars and sort of non-refugee scholars, but within the refugee population between men and women. And so we really wanted to sort of zero in or where we could have kind of an exponential and sort of really leveraged effect. And the education campaign is what we've landed on.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Yeah, absolutely. That's really interesting. And Rachel, just coming back to that, the whole idea of this campaign being women-led and women-focused, on the on the women-led side, obviously you said there it's kind of led by a group of um donors who are themselves women. I know that you've written in some things that I've read about how part of the thinking behind this is because women have historically been sort of ignored or sidelined or not really kind of taken uh seriously or engaged with as donors. Why do you think that is? What have the barriers historically been that have kind of meant that women haven't played their full role as donors?

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Well, I I appreciate the question. And I think the the issue is that traditionally fundraising has been geared toward men. Um and so it has evolved to respond to their priorities. And I think organizations like USA for UNHCR and many more, I will add, are really doing a better job of listening to their female donors and giving them opportunities to give in the ways that they like to give. I would um I would point any of our listeners today to all of the research about women as philanthropists. They tend to want to co-create opportunities, but they start, and this is an interesting distinction, they often start with impact, whereas traditional fundraising campaigns often start with a number. So Suzanne did a wonderful job of defining how USA for UNHCR brought together a group of women, including me, and said, Where what's important to you? How do you want to create impact? And from that, we landed on all of the you know building blocks of a campaign. What number, how much impact will it have, what's the timeline, etc. But that communal co-creation was critical. And I think the difference um that we are seeing between fundraising efforts a decade ago and today is really taking that approach and hearing women's voices in a new way. Now, with that said, I would remind us all, of course, that women are not a monolith. Um, there's interesting research out there that would show that gender differences fade in different from different types of donors. For example, entrepreneurs tend to give in very similar ways, and men and women aren't distinct in that uh in that mindset. But in general, I think organizations broadly are doing a much better job. But USA for UNHCR, with this example in particular, really took a new approach. And I think it's a novel, fresh, and frankly long-overdue approach.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

And do you want to follow up on that, Susania?

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Well, yeah, I'd like to because I I hadn't thought of this before, uh, Rachel. But as you were talking, I was thinking about that co-creation process that led us not just to education. And Roger, you've already asked about that, but what led us specifically to this scholarship program, which frankly has existed at UNHCR for a long time. It's one of the longest-running and largest refugee-focused scholarships program. And I'm I'm like really moved that we have a group of donors who were focused on impact rather than building something new that met their needs. Like they had an idea around impact. There's an existing program that had ongoing needs, of course. Like every year you have more refugee scholars who want to access higher education. And what a gift for us to be, you know, sort of part of something with such an incredible legacy and sort of set of traditions, but that we got to put our kind of fresh stamp on, um, our own kind of campaign language, our own focus on refugee women. Um, I just really appreciate that about the donors that I think sometimes you have to create something shiny and new. And in this instance, they were like, well, no, something great exists. How can we bring kind of leveraged impact to what already is in place that's successful? It just needs more amplifiers.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

I would build on that actually because as part of that co-creation group, I remember how thrilled we were collectively to find out about this scholarship program and to say, oh my gosh, here's a place we can create real impact. And it actually bonded the group in a new way. And if you look at the differences between men and women generally in philanthropy, one of them is the focus on community giving. It's why women's giving circle finding that catalyst was really an exciting evolution for the group. And obviously we rallied quickly around it.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm interested as well in talking about that sort of focus very much being on starting from wanting to achieve impact. Was it that that led to the focus on women and girls as recipients? So that you kind of quickly identified that that was the way to have the greatest impact, or was there sort of another thought process which was because it was a women, it was uh women led on the donor side, there was a kind of existing interest perhaps in using that as a lens. And then within that you focused on maximizing impact. Which of them came first?

SPEAKER_01 15:37

So Suzanne spoke to that earlier, but it really was a recognition early on collectively that education is a multiplier. And so we started to hone in on education early and asked for data about education across refugee groups and age groups. And when we discovered the gender gap in access to higher education specifically, it was a terrific fit for us to align. But education as a multiplier for all of us was really a high priority.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

Yeah, I remember it the same. I remember that education was really where people were focused. And then not surprisingly, you know, as you advance in education within a displaced population or displaced community, um, opportunities for girls begin to fall off pretty exponentially. And so by the time you're hitting this sort of university level education, access to it, accommodations while you're studying, even know-how around scholarship application, um, there's just a lot of reasons why girls weren't represented sort of at the same levels. And so it became sort of another door through which we could walk through that was still tethered to the education piece, but but gave us, yeah, sort of a focus on a part of the program that would allow us to have really outsized impact, frankly.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

I would just note, um, this wasn't seamless. I mean, it took us a number of working sessions together, some pretty intense collaborative but productive conversation and productive conversations to get to this place. It sounds easy in retrospect, but it was an intense process and it was really a joy because you get to know your fellow donors and supporters in a new way through those kinds of constructively critical and probing conversations.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

And that touches on something I really wanted to ask about because you mentioned a couple of times that the, you know, the the women seem, you know, the evidence suggests there is a kind of preference for uh for giving in collaborative ways or in kind of collective ways using collective uh models. Um and I was really interested in whether you had seen evidence of that bringing value, not just in the outputs, but in the process. So in terms of the connections it created between the donors that were involved and what some of that value might have looked like.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

Yeah, it's a great question. And and I think Rachel will have an answer to it that sort of from her sort of vantage point, I would say from the USA for UNHCR vantage point, first of all, I mean, we exist to mobilize resources for the UN Refugee Agency. So the better we can be at that in any sphere is good. And so I can certainly point to the learnings that my professional staff have had from watching this process unfold, from helping support these incredible women philanthropists in coming to this sort of shared campaign and really putting trust in a process that then led us to such an impactful space. So I think my answer to your question is yes, sort of being a part of and bearing witness to this process that I think in the end will lead us to great impact also had its own set of learnings about how, for me, it confirmed that we are not transactional fundraisers at USA for UNHCR, we're relational fundraisers. Um, you got to have patience for relationships, though, in both your personal and professional life. Things don't happen overnight. And so this idea that we were kind of bearing witness to a group of women, group of humans, you know, really focused on what their sort of sense of shared purpose would be, what the kind of collective impact they wanted to have. Now, whether or not those women philanthropists, Rachel included, have gone back to their other philanthropic work and taken some of the lessons. I don't know that, although I can imagine they haven't, because it really has been a rich process that's had, you know, yeah, sort of its own impact above and beyond what Building Better Future sort of aims to achieve. I don't know, Rachel, what do you think of that? I'm sort of thinking it from one side of the of the equation, but you must have your own um experience there.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

Yeah, it's an interesting question. And Suzanne, I really appreciate and endorse everything you just said. And I think I approached this candidly, both as a potential donor and of course as an advocate for UNHCR, USA for UNHCR, because of my role on the board. And so I was really thinking and focusing when you asked the question on the relational piece of this co-creation process and what it will translate into and what we have already seen it translate into. So, for example, part of that co-creation discussion was a learning opportunity and it was a learning journey for all of us, but it gave us an opportunity to speak firsthand to beneficiaries and to dive perhaps more deeply into the content than than we might otherwise as more transactional donors. And so there is storytelling, natural storytelling that has taken root in every one of the donors at this table. And I have to believe that is resonating beyond the immediate impact we can measure today. But I also believe that will translate into longer-term giving for this donor group and others, um, because we have we have formed a group not only of supporters, but of true advocates who are invested in the shared mission in a different way than other campaigns I've been involved in historically.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

Yeah, if I can I add to that, Rodri, just to sort of say, I mean, another, you know, because Rachel mentioned storytelling. So I, this is already a year and a half, maybe almost two years ago, we hosted um a small event at the home of one of our women philanthropists, and we had a DAFI scholar with us, Monica, who had fled South Sudan and went on to study with the support of the scholarship at the University of Nairobi. She'd lost her father, she was facing a lot of pressure to um to sort of be forced into early marriage, and and the university sort of access gave her like a peace of mind and sort of the safe space, and to watch the women who at that point, many of them had maybe only been thinking of Daffy and higher education access in sort of abstract terms, to watch them interact with Monica and to really like see the the valve, the living value and power of what they were behind in this program, and then to take that and first of all, to be able to sort of retell Monica's story so easily, like every one of them so moved by what they saw. They know this woman who has been through this, who has said, I'm speaking truth to power. This scholarship program changed my life. Like, I also have been really moved by that part of it, the storytelling. I I've seen it, and like you can't, you know, it moves mountains when people hear that you have had direct interaction with somebody whose lives have been transformed. By a program that you're now a part of. So I also think that's uh like sort of proofs in the pudding, if you will.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

And on that front, it's something I know you've written about this, the importance of narrative and storytelling within the Building Better Futures campaign. Um and you sort of mentioned, I think, in one of the things that I read that maybe the focus on uh having a uh creating a women-led campaign than one was also focused on women and girls requires a slightly different approach to narrative and storytelling from the one that might have traditionally been used when trying to engage donors or to fundraise. Maybe you could say a bit about what is different about that approach that you've seen through this campaign.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

I mean, I I don't know, Rachel, what you would say to this. I think that there's a tone of true partnership and possibility here. We have this like this sort of like like just sort of fundament a set of fundamental truths in common, and we're coming at it from different angles. But I mean, Monica as an example obviously believes in the power of higher education as much as we do. You know, like you're at the table, and again, I think Rachel said this earlier. You know, we have women as actors and agents of change on every side of this, as the donors, as the beneficiaries, as our program, you know, sort of connectors on the UNHCR side, even frankly, those who are sort of at the universities who know that someone like Monica is a Daphne scholarship and is, you know, maybe watching out for her in sort of new and unique ways when she first arrives at universities to make sure she's got a support system. So our storytelling has been that of partnership, right? Because we really do all believe that what we're a part of is it life-changing, you know, for everybody involved, frankly. And then this sort of notion of possibility, because I think, you know, we have refugees and displaced persons who like really all they want to do is contribute to sort of peaceful and stable futures. And access to higher education is often that last bridge that allows you to be able to do that as part of labor mobility and as part of a workforce. We know that a lot of countries sort of speak really good language, like, oh, we definitely include refugees socioeconomically, but frankly, there's a lot of barriers to it. And so it's a it's a much smaller percentage of host countries that that actually let that kind of work participation happen. Um, these higher education degrees like just improve the chances of it happening in ways so that I know we have that shared notion of possibility too, that I think is really important from a storytelling perspective. I don't know. What, Rachel, what would you add to that around the sort of narrative thread that we have woven in this campaign?

SPEAKER_01 24:30

Yeah, Suzanne, I would revert back to um the story of meeting Monica. One of the things that this team has done uh incredibly well, you a kudos to USA for UNHCR's development team, is to continue to create opportunities for the donors who are supporting this campaign to hear directly from beneficiaries. And it is an upward storytelling cycle. So, number one, we hear directly from the beneficiary that touches your heart, it moves you, and it reinforces the good thinking that went into this program, into creating this campaign. But then it also kind of expands our as donors, our perspective on what's possible because of this campaign and how we might further engage. And I've had that conversation with a few donors on this campaign about additional engagement. Um, so this circles back to what are the what are the repercussions of this collaborative process and what are the other multiplier effects. And I think of you know, there's a a refugee from Congo, her name is Grace, and she um is studying in uh Germany, but she also started um a mentorship club for other female scholars. So that prompted a conversation among a handful of donors about how are we helping ensure these scholars have the support they need through the program. The scholarship program already provides lots of support, but there are other things that refugees are very clear that they need and would like, and they're creating them for themselves. That's an inspiration in and of itself. It brings every donor deeper into the journey that these scholars take, and it has prompted lots of conversation about other ways we might support this effort. So there's a multiplier effect there. The storytelling piece is critical, but I would say at the end of the day, the storytelling always has to be engagement directly with the beneficiary to be most powerful, and that's what this team continues to create for us as often as possible.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Yeah, absolutely. Um one thing I wanted to ask about is we've talked quite a bit about the focus of the campaign as being led by women and and sort of aimed at women as uh as beneficiaries or recipients. The other part of uh the aspect that tends to come up in this conversation about women as donors is the sort of apparent wealth transfer that we're on the cusp of and the idea that there's this whole new generation or next generation of philanthropists who potentially are interested in doing things in quite different ways. Is that sort of relevant to your thinking about the Building Better Futures campaign? Is there an aspect of that that is about engaging women who are themselves, in some sense, next gen donors? And do you think, you know, do you think it does make sense to talk about those donors as having particular characteristics?

SPEAKER_01 27:13

Well, um, as I said earlier, certainly there's loads of research about how donors are unique. And this generational transfer, this great wealth transfer, will undoubtedly reshape and resize the world of philanthropy. And I I think USA for UNHCR has done something unique and novel, and frankly, is a great example to other organizations. I think it will continue to evolve both in our organization, but also other organizations as they recognize the shift in control of the world's capital, which is not only empowering women financially, but enabling them to redefine how they want to use it. Um the next generation for us um has become a more vocal and active participant in our donor universe, I would say. Suzanne, I think that's fair to say. Um and I think, you know, as we've seen, that means in philanthropy game-changing investments driven by women. And so I think what's talked about a lot less is the need for new tactics and approaches to evolve and meet this moment. Suzanne, I'll I'll turn to you to see if you want to add more from an institutional perspective.

SPEAKER_02 28:21

Well, I would, I mean, yes, just certainly the the stories are out there about the great wealth transfer and the fact that women are already driving sort of the majority of household sort of decisions around philanthropy, and that will just sort of only increase. I mean, the next gen where my mind went, and and I'm thinking of you know, the philanthropists that not only are a part of building better futures, but frankly, who come to USA for UNHCR's door and want to get engaged. Um, I do think that there is something like special about the Building Better Futures campaign and watching some of these young women who you have Bernice, who's from the Democratic Republic of Congo, and I was with her at a panel hosted by the government of Qatar and their kind of education above all initiative. And to watch her, you know, she was, she had sort of been trained as an electrical engineer in South Africa. She's now, I think, still, or maybe near the end of pursuing her master's degree in Italy, like incredible young women who I'm connected with on LinkedIn and sort of trying to amplify. The women who were really most moved by Bernice's story are often women around her age that have also like tried to pursue their master's in electrical engineering. And they're like, how have you overcome, you know, forced displacement from the DRC, figuring out a program in South Africa that would take you, getting connected to a scholarship program that has you. I mean, it's really pretty incredible stories that, yes, I think will appeal, you know, sort of differently and maybe even more powerfully to next-gen donors who are not that far removed from kind of the choices that Bernice is making, at least from sort of an age perspective. Um, so I think leveraging that again is sort of like incumbent on us to tell that story in ways that connect donors in the change that they can have. That's a much better answer. Use that.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

It did make me think as well, actually. Um, I mean, sort of particularly when it comes to next-gen donors, but I guess more broadly, just when it comes to engaging with philanthropists, for an organization like USA for UNHCR, which is obviously you know allied to a very large multinational kind of global organization with a huge amount of reach and influence. Do you find that that is always an advantage when it comes to engaging philanthropists? Or do you sometimes have to kind of tailor the narrative that you're offering to philanthropists because some of them maybe are less inclined to engage with an organization like USA for NHCR, and they need a kind of a slightly different cell?

SPEAKER_02 30:35

That is such a good question. And of course, you know, my answer is going to be it cuts both ways, right? There is there's a whole set of donors, and I've been so moved. I'm almost at the end of my third year of leadership here at USA for UNHCR. And we like, we invite our donors to talk to us all the time. Our our major donors, our foundation donors, our grassroots donors who give us monthly like, how'd you hear about us? Why are you connected to us? And I think that you will hear a lot that yes, donors are moved by the scale that is available to them through working with a group like UNHCR. Um we're we're at any emergency or humanitarian crisis within 72 hours. We have obviously a worldwide global team. We have core relief items that can sort of save people's lives in the aftermath of emergency, sort of pre-positioned and stationed all over the world. Yes, there are a lot of donors who are very moved by being a part of something that has such like momentum and scale. On the other side, yes, are there also donors who say, I wish I were closer to the work? Um, can, you know, can UNHCR really give me that sort of almost like kind of customized sort of experience and approach? But lucky for us, we can do that side as well. I mean, I've just given you stories of women who have been displaced by crisis, all of whom I've met in person, all of whom are going on to do things that will contribute to sort of world peace and stability, if you will. Um, so you can you can have it both ways. You just have to be willing to, number one, and I always say this, like raise your hand as a donor and say, this is what I need, right? I'm move by scale, keep telling me these big stories, or I'm a donor that wants to be a part of this well-vetted system, but I want stories. I want granular examples of where my donation has made an impact on the life of an individual or a family. And so I would also, you know, like last week, I told you um earlier, Roger, I was in Jordan and Syria. So on the Syria side, talking to a family who had been displaced to Lebanon for almost the entire 12 years of the Syrian Civil War. It's now back. He has taken a small business grant, like a thousand dollars US, I think, sort of max, and learned to blacksmith, has sort of set up his own, you know, sort of workshop. And so to be able to come back home with a story like that from this man who will not only rebuild like his family and his community while they're rebuilding Syria, um, I think is really um shows just the flexibility that a group like USA for UNHCR can make available to donors. And I had to put his story in there because it is a lot of women that we support and work with, but of course, there are so many heads of households that are trying to do right by their families. And so, yeah, your question's a good one. But I I think we can answer both sides of it. We just really need to hear from the donor what's the kind of impact you want to have back to building better futures? And and let us answer that impact then with the kinds of investments that can really um meet your needs.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

And if I could build on that, um, as a former foundation president, um, and then running an NGO and now being on the board of USA for UNHCR, I would say what Suzanne speaks to is not easy. But if there's any counsel for organizational leaders to take away, it really is to make sure you're rethinking your stewardship to make it personal. You have to both create opportunities for donors to raise their hand and ask donors to raise their hand to understand and to have deep conversations to understand their priorities, where and how they'd like to engage. And that's something that I think UNHCR does particularly well, in part because our scale and our reach is so big and broad that unless we personalize it, it's hard to really comprehend that we are the only agency in the world mandated with this very fundamental responsibility, which is the protection of refugees. Um I think the team at UNHCR does that exquisitely well, but I would say there's a lot to learn for any organization of any size in how they do that through their storytelling and how they have allowed that storytelling to reshape their stewardship to make sure that it is personal for donors at every scale.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

Yeah, it's really really interesting. Um I wanted to just ask uh a little bit about the kind of wider context within which you operate. I mean, it it strikes me that working on issues around refugees and and migration is never entirely straightforward, and there are always kind of political challenges, but it feels as though there must be particular political challenges at the moment. Certainly here in the UK, we're seeing a lot of kind of heightened political rhetoric around issues of refugees and migration. And also, particularly thinking about the Building Better Futures campaign, taking a gender lens and applying that to anything is no longer necessarily straightforward. Are these things that you've had to navigate or at least kind of think about so far in the work that you're doing with the Building Better Futures campaign?

SPEAKER_02 35:26

I mean, I can speak from the USA for UNHCR, you know, kind of vantage point. And and and frankly, no. I mean, are we aware? I mean, is there a sort of a swirl um around, you know, some of the issues that you've raised and some of the kind of geopolitics of the time? Absolutely. And we're always navigating those waters, we're always sort of threading the needle. But when it when it comes to the specific work of building better futures, I have to tell you, no. Like people really believe in the power of education as a multiplier. Um, people really believe that that is a fundamental human right. And as you may know from my bio, having worked for Malala Yousaf side for many years, like the the the there are a few people, sort of Taliban aside, who don't really believe in the power of education and everyone having a right to it. And so that part of the campaign is a central tenet. People are like, check, got it. And then frankly, if we're still moved by data, the data still shows us that women are accessing these higher education scholarships at significantly lower levels. So we're like, listen, we're we're interested in building better futures, we're interested in the Staffe scholarship program. And for now, we're looking to have a focus on where we can help bridge a gap that we know exists and that we know will have, again, sort of addition to educate multiplier effects for family, household, communities, and countries. And the data is strong. So no one also has sort of challenged that. I think the last piece I would say about this, and I would really invite Rachel to come in as well, is that if we think of, you know, the impact that economic, I mean, that education can have on the sort of the peace and sort of stability quotient, um, and again, the contribution then to economic productivity and to labor mobility, in a in a moment where we're trying to really shore up national economies and we're really trying to think about what does it mean to bring prosperity to people sort of across the globe. I mean, I'm thinking Syria is like front of my mind Rastnight. Like, we will not rebuild that country without incredible capital investment and infrastructure support from countries around the world, from multilateral institutions. And the way that the Syrian population, as an example, will best be able to harness that investment in that interest is with a well-educated community and population that knows how to take Syria forward into the future. And women will be a part of that regardless. So I in a funny way, I'm not being, you know, I'm not not hearing some of the complication of the time, but I'll tell you, we have sort of a good answer to every one of those questions. And so we're kind of just keeping the focus on the North Star and it's working so far.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

I'm aware in terms of getting away uh within the hour, I want to make sure we do that. But um I just to say thanks ever so much to both of you for finding the time to come on the podcast. But before I say a final goodbye, I just wanted to give you an opportunity if there's anything particular that you want to direct people's attention to or anything that you want to give people a call to do off the back of this conversation who might be listening.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

Um, well, I would say that um, first of all, thank you. It's just always fun to find room and space for conversations um that are coming at it again from different angles and the trends and dynamics around philanthropy. I think so much in this moment, back to your previous question around kind of shifting winds and shifting discourse, I think that we are entering an era when the private sector broadly defined, you know, so everything that's sort of not public sector, but government kind of aside, the private sector will have enormous responsibility and input into the sort of the world's ongoing development and kind of maturation and progress. And so to be on a side of that where we're thinking about how to influence that, how to sort of feed philanthropic decisions in ways that achieve greater results and impact, with a focus on human rights and protection, particularly for refugees at the center of that. Um, I like to just sort of peel the onion like in all sorts of different ways. And you've given us an opportunity to do that this morning, um, while also talking about our craft. And our craft is philanthropy and fundraising. That's what we do. We were set up 30 years ago by concerned Americans who saw the incredible work UNHCR was doing around the world, and they're like, how can we sell this to more Americans and get them more involved in this um project, this experiment, if you will? And here we are 30 years later with a lot of really incredible results to show for it. So it's just fun to be able to, you know, kind of mash through that a little bit um from different perspectives with some really good questions. So thanks, Rodri.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

I would second that. I really appreciate this opportunity, both to highlight building better futures, but to explore UNHCR's reach and also how uh this organization is navigating these changing times. I mean, I will acknowledge, of course, that the the context for our work is changing, but I don't think American leadership will ultimately as driven by the private sector. And that's demonstrated in large part by the response of our donors this year, who were incredibly generous in responding to the needs of refugees and helping fulfill the hopes of refugees as well. Um, and I continue to see more focus on empowering women and girls around the world when we think about that, whether from an economic perspective, a stability, national security, and stability perspective, um, or the core national values that I embrace of compassion and opportunity. So I really appreciate the opportunity to share this story. I hope it is inspirational and educational for others out there working in the space and specifically women in leadership roles who can drive some change.

SPEAKER_00 41:04

A great optimistic note on which to end things. Um just remaining to say thanks to both of you for coming on the podcast. Um, really great to have a chance to talk and certainly wish you all the best with the Building Better Futures campaign and the wider work of USA for UNHCR in the future.

SPEAKER_02 41:18

Thanks so much, Roger. This was a ton of fun. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

Okay, well, my thanks again to Rachel and to Suzanne for coming on the podcast. It's really great to have a chance to hear about all the work that they're doing, which I think is more important now than ever before. Um I'll put links in the show notes to places where you can find a bit more uh information about USA for UNHCR and the Building Better Futures campaign and some of the other stuff that we discussed. If you're interested more broadly in issues around philanthropy and civil society, do check out the website at whyphilanthropymatters.com. You can find all of the back issues of this uh podcast. Uh you can find lots of articles, long-form reads about issues to do with what's going on in philanthropy now and what's happened with philanthropy in the past, also shorter form guides to particular kind of topics of interest in philanthropy, lots of news updates. You can also find all of the back issues of the newsletter that I do once a month, and you can sign up for that newsletter. So there's loads to dig into there. Um if you want to follow me on social media, you can find me on LinkedIn and Blue Sky as well and follow me there for other kinds of updates. Um, I'll also just give another shout out for the uh project that I'm working on with the Rory and Elizabeth Brooks Foundation at the moment. So if you're listening to this and you're based in the UK and you know of or work with a charity or an arts and culture organization or a community group or higher education institution that has benefited from philanthropy in some way and use that philanthropy to do something really interesting or powerful, and you feel like you've got a great story to share, then please do get in touch. You can find my contact details uh on the website. Um, we're looking to pull together a whole series of case studies that kind of highlight the diversity of philanthropy, um, both in terms of its geographic spread around the UK, but also the kind of different causes it focuses on, the different sizes and the different approaches it takes. Um, but even more than that to focus on what philanthropy has actually achieved, so to tell some really kind of compelling impact stories. So I would love to hear from you if you've got a story to share. As I say, you can find my email address on uh the Y Philanthropy Matters website, or you can get in touch with me on LinkedIn. I would love to hear from you. Um other than that, if you like the podcast and feel uh as though you know other people that might also like it, please do spread the good word. I think personal recommendation always helps. Um if you can leave us a nice review wherever you get your podcasts, that helps bump us up the algorithm, and that's also good stuff. Um other than that, it just remains to say thanks ever so much for listening, and I'll see you next time. Bye.